X Vario Not So Bad?

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 Post subject: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:54 am 
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No matter how you look at it, it's smaller than the M and has a similar form factor and ergonomics - just like the X2. It's nice that the family is all similar - especially if you have multiple bodies.

Now assuming the M platform had a zoom, let alone such a nice range of "28-70mm" (equivalent), it would be a similar size and bulk as this. You can't make it faster and maintain a small size - which is perhaps even more important in the "M aesthetic." People would howl if the lens were larger.

"This one goes to 12,500." A decent top-end on ISO means that this zoom lens isn't all that slow anymore - especially if you consider the camera has a built-in flash.

Say what you will, the X2 made nice pictures, as does this camera from what we've seen so far. I'll take an APS-C sized sensor over smaller ones any day. Okay, it's not full frame... You have to draw the line somewhere, and the zoom takes this into account. No harm, no foul.

I dare say this IS a "Mini M" in many ways...

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 Post subject: Re: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:18 am 
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Double Negative wrote:
No matter how you look at it, it's smaller than the M and has a similar form factor and ergonomics - just like the X2. It's nice that the family is all similar - especially if you have multiple bodies.

Now assuming the M platform had a zoom, let alone such a nice range of "28-70mm" (equivalent), it would be a similar size and bulk as this. You can't make it faster and maintain a small size - which is perhaps even more important in the "M aesthetic." People would howl if the lens were larger.

"This one goes to 12,500." A decent top-end on ISO means that this zoom lens isn't all that slow anymore - especially if you consider the camera has a built-in flash.

Say what you will, the X2 made nice pictures, as does this camera from what we've seen so far. I'll take an APS-C sized sensor over smaller ones any day. Okay, it's not full frame... You have to draw the line somewhere, and the zoom takes this into account. No harm, no foul.

I dare say this IS a "Mini M" in many ways...


I will go further, it is a very good camera.


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 Post subject: Re: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:09 pm 
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It might even be a great camera, when one looks at it compared to the other options in its class. People are always disappointed when a company you like doesn't come out with exactly what you want.

When Leica first made the announcement, I (and many others) just assumed it would be a German made NEX/Fuji with a native M mount (Leica is partly to blame for using the name Mini-M)...Ultimately I won't buy it, but I look forward to trying it and seeing all the great images that come from those that do have one.

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 Post subject: Re: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:08 pm 
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That's a spot-on assessment, Alex. I see it happen with Apple products (the other thing I follow besides photography) all the time... Most recently on the day before the X Vario made it's debut (June 10th vs. June 11th) at their WWDC (World Wide Developer's Conference) - one of a handful of big, key events. Only new, tangible hardware is a minor (but pretty nice) bump of the existing MacBook Airs. The Mac Pro isn't coming until the fall, or a potential bump to the Mac Mini (what I'm interested in).

I think a lot of people truly had "Mini M" in their minds, and with all the pre-announcement hoopla (which Leica took some part in)... It set big expectations. Unfortunately it was more X than M.

I actually like the X2 but kind of wished it had a quality zoom. Well, ta da! Not that I would buy either (I have Ms) but I think they're quality cameras. The price, sure... For those specs you're paying quite a premium. But this IS Leica, no? And the target market, I'm sure - buys it perhaps because of that - not the lens specs.

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 Post subject: Re: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:41 pm 
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It looks like a really nice camera to me. Very clean design, aperture and shutter speed dials, a focusing ring with a distance scale, and a compact and sleek magnesium alloy body. If the image quality is there (and why wouldn't it be) it should be a sweet camera to use.

What I really don't get are the complaints regarding the lens. Don't people realize how large a 2.8 aperture APS-C zoom is? They should try a Canon EF-S 17-55mm 2.8 for size.

In any event, I'm not getting one. Not because I don't like it, but because my M9P is compact enough for me.


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 Post subject: Re: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:25 pm 
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Funnily enough, I was quite set on swapping my wifes nex-5 to a used D700 + a nice zoom. It was a very close call... in the end I just couldn't live with the size.

So I figured I'll keep looking.. enter X vario. This might be it. My wife never changes lenses and by now is used to lcd shooting with the nex. She would have liked my X2 but wants a zoom and also movie clips.. X vario = perfection!

In the mean time I went to blow the money ny ordering a new car.. but come autumn, if I can whip up the money, it's going to be vario time.

The sensor should be a bit of step up, lens definitely compared to sel 18-55, physical size about the same, simplicity of use.. weight really is the only drawback compared to nex for her. And if I get evf I could use it on my X2 also.

Oh and also cancelled my M pre-order. I'll stick with my M9. It's perfectly good for me..instead if budget allows, I'll get some nice lens for it.

//Juha


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 Post subject: Re: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:44 pm 
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jlindstrom wrote:
Funnily enough, I was quite set on swapping my wifes nex-5 to a used D700 + a nice zoom. It was a very close call... in the end I just couldn't live with the size.

So I figured I'll keep looking.. enter X vario. This might be it. My wife never changes lenses and by now is used to lcd shooting with the nex. She would have liked my X2 but wants a zoom and also movie clips.. X vario = perfection!

In the mean time I went to blow the money ny ordering a new car.. but come autumn, if I can whip up the money, it's going to be vario time.

The sensor should be a bit of step up, lens definitely compared to sel 18-55, physical size about the same, simplicity of use.. weight really is the only drawback compared to nex for her. And if I get evf I could use it on my X2 also.

Oh and also cancelled my M pre-order. I'll stick with my M9. It's perfectly good for me..instead if budget allows, I'll get some nice lens for it.

//Juha



Congratulations!!! Perfect logic with good critical thinking...not critical responses like most forums lately. Can't wait to see it!!!


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 Post subject: Re: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Full frame...hmmm...

Been meaning to ask, what is the point of a full frame when one is using a fixed zoom? I shot action sports and motorsports professionally, with Nikon D bodies, D2H and D2X and 70-210 2.8 lenses...never gave it a thought.

With the flash, looks like indoors and moving subjects are covered. And the high ISO capability...what's not to like?

I love the fact that the lens only measures (by Jonoslack) 60mm...less than my 90 mm Elmar 4.0 for the M3.


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 Post subject: Re: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Thanks Dave.

About the FF, I think it's usually couple of things:

1) shallower dof
2) even better iso (if sensors are of same era)
3) with interchangeable lenses, the lenses act like what it says on the barrel (50 is 50, not 75)

With a camera like vario, the 3rd doesn't apply. For example on my X2, I just consider it a 35mm without a second thought.

//Juha


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 Post subject: Re: X Vario Not So Bad?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:07 am 
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My first criteria when looking at a new camera is ease of (setting) controls, f-stops and shutter speeds with film and in addition iso and exposure compensation with digital. When I look at this camera I think Leica has hit a home run, controls are perfect, shutter speed dial, f-stop dial, focus control is beautifully done. I don't think Leica gets the credit they deserve for prioritizing the camera ergonomics, including their well thought out menu system/controls. If the image quality is anywhere near where it should be then Leica has hit all my criteria.


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